THE OMNI SHOW

Andrew J. Mason: You're listening to the Omni show, get to know the people and stories behind the Omni Group's award-winning productivity apps for Mac and iOS. My name's Andrew J. Mason. And today we talk to PR for the Omni Group and purveyor of all things. Awesome. Naomi Pearce. Hey everybody. Welcome to a, another episode of the Omni Show. My name's Andrew J. Mason and today's show is all about getting off of your own back. Now to clarify, we're not giving you a pass to be lazy here, or are we Naomi?

Naomi Pearce: If you want to be lazy, that's your business.

Andrew J. Mason: Hey, whatever. I could already tell this is going to be a great conversation. Rather, this show and the timing of this show is all about what sort of stress-free goodness can show up for everyday folks who use the software. So our guest today is Naomi Pearce and she's played a significant role in the PR slice of the Omni Group. And I've actually been badgering her for quite a while to join this show because she's responsible for so much of Omni's voice. And we actually talked about this before the show. One of the requirements for me interviewing her was that we were brutally honest about her, and I'm putting air quotes here, not a power user status here.

Naomi Pearce: Well, imagine a PR person wanting to make sure that we're telling the truth, right?

Andrew J. Mason: I'll also go ahead and promise that that status does not disqualify you from sharing with us today.

Naomi Pearce: It is a little bit unusual for me to step out. I'm so much more comfortable talking about my clients and what they do than I am talking about myself. It just makes me a little bit self-conscious and uncomfortable. It's out of my comfort zone. So here we go out of my comfort zone.

Andrew J. Mason: No, no worries at all. And let's jump right into it. So what is your current role as it pertains to the Omni Group and what do you do each day?

Naomi Pearce: Primarily I'm public relations, but occasionally I will do a little pinch hitting on the marketing side. I've been accused of being able to write reasonable copies. So the focus on making sure that what we want to say is clean and clear and is a consistent high signal to low noise ratio. It takes a lot more work than people would think, but I think it helps everybody in the long run. So I try to keep the message clean, know what it is, keep everybody on-message and occasionally do the marketing pitch hit a little bit here and there. That's sort of my gist.

Andrew J. Mason: Yeah.

Naomi Pearce: Yeah.

Andrew J. Mason: And I love that because Omni's style, their voice that I think people have caught onto seems so effortless and fluid and transparent. And it is all of those things. But I think that a lot of times when you see something that looks simple on one side, chances are, there's a lot of blood, sweat, and tears that happened on the other side to get it there. Just the details.

Naomi Pearce: Oh, no, everything that looks awesome, probably has far more involved in getting it there than you would ever imagine. Particularly when multiple people are involved and their definitions of awesome are involved and different perspectives have to be taken into account, that all takes time. And it's usually valuable to get those other perspectives in the mix, but it does take time. And what you want to talk about from a company perspective always ends up having to be rooted in the actual basis of reality, right? So you can have lots of grand plans, but what ended up happening and my company, there's two rules and we'll go over one of them, but tell the truth and tell it first is rule number one, which sounds so simple. The whole hard part is necessarily telling it first is getting to the root of it and mustering up. But if you run into any of my client contacts and you want to pop quiz them on what's Pearce communications rule, number one, and they don't know the answer to it, let me know. Pop quiz.

Andrew J. Mason: Well, if you're going to have a pop quiz, where you surprise somebody with something like that? It seems like a great question to, to surprise them with, talk to me about where did you first come across Ken and the Omni Group folks.

Naomi Pearce: Dialing in from the way back machine. The first time I ever met Ken and crew, and I do remember it distinctly, although I'm not sure I remember what year it was. It would've had to be right after Steve came back because Ken and those guys are Next-ies, came from the world of Next. So it was at a Mac world and one of my client contacts, the product manager, Eric Zolenka came running over and he said, "Oh, there's these guys you've got to meet."

Naomi Pearce: So just for context, anytime Eric would ping me, I would typically just sort of drop whatever I had and pay attention because he's one of those kind of guys that you know it's going to be good. He went on to do the Mac OS 10 server, and then Alex Grossman did the Xer at Apple. So I think, I believe he's still at Apple and nowadays has his head firmly ensconced in cellular stuff, 5G and whatnot. But yeah, anytime Eric would say, you got to check this app, blah, blah. I would just stop what I'm doing. And so I went over and they were working on this thing called Omni Web, which was a fabulous browser, at the time the browser market was different. And of course, many rivers worth of water have flowed since then. But that's the first time I ever met Ken.

Andrew J. Mason: That's fantastic. And what about the Mac ecosystem? Now, when you told me that you knew Sal Seguin and Alex Lindsay, I was like, okay, there here's somebody that has one or two connections with the Macintosh and people surrounding it. That seems to have a little bit of history there.

Naomi Pearce: Just a few. Well, sure. I mean, my career wise, I was doing public relations for an extremely large agency in multiple locations for years and years, but I kind of came around to the feeling that when you really love something, it makes it easier to talk about it all day, every day. And my heart was very much in the internet space and my heart was very much in the Mac space. And at the time there was the, I don't know if you remember this, but the rolling death nail counter Apple was going to die any minute now. And they may have been 30 days from bankruptcy. I don't know, but, or 90 or whatever the story is, but I was sort of unconvinced that they would... I mean, I thought something would happen because American culture loves an underdog and you got to have at least one.

Naomi Pearce: So I go back to, I think the first Mac specific client was the first web server on the Mac and originally it was done by Chuck Shotton and it was called Mac HTTP. And it was purchased by a company called Star Nine. And that's a story that'll keep for another day and Star Nine ha rebranded it from Mac HTTP to be called Webbstar. And they also had Liststar. And all of that was an in joke from a different company that was a product way back in the day called Wordstar or something like that. Anyway. So it was all sort of an joke, but the first Mac web server, and I did the 1.0, press release...

Naomi Pearce: And through several acquisitions later and have been fairly Mac heavy on my docket ever since. I mean, I occasionally have the breath of fresh air client or something like that, but there have been BB Edit has been a long time... Bare Bones, sorry, whose product is BB Edit. They also do Yojimbo has been a long time client of mine. Somebody asked me the other day, how long have I've been working for them? And I had to go back and do research. I mean, there've been a lot of really great developments. Max Speech Dictate was a very exciting one and a lot of stuff going on since then, of course the Omni Group is... They're a keeper. I'll keep working for them.

Andrew J. Mason: Yeah, they're good. They're good.

Naomi Pearce: We love the power tools.

Andrew J. Mason: I know your history does run deep and I think one of the earliest mentions of you that I could find... I did a little of the mandatory precursor, Google, stalking, not crazy stalking, but just a quick search for your name in this context and saw a developer interview in 2010 about Omni's iPad lineup.

Naomi Pearce: I don't know if you remember this, but when Steve did the keynote, I can't remember if it was a WWDC or Mac World, but introducing the iPad, everybody knew we had to sort of jump on it, but nobody had one. Nobody was going to have one. Right? So how do you design for that? I mean, there was some expertise that came from the iPhone development. So, iOS from that front had some familiarity, but this was a completely new form fact. Ken and crew, since they didn't have any hardware to work with, they prototyped with cardboard, they made like these cardboard prototype... They knew what the specs were supposed to be. And everybody was running around with these cardboard prototype...

Andrew J. Mason: Wow.

Naomi Pearce: ... Things and you would like literally analog drawings on it because none of this was digital and you couldn't do... Right.

Andrew J. Mason: That was crazy.

Naomi Pearce: And everything had to be day and date. Right? They wanted to be out for the first day and date. So you how... What else are you going to do? Right. Prototype it out with cardboard boxes.

Andrew J. Mason: I know we always kind of like play up nostalgia when it's that long ago, but just this thought in my head of Ken sitting at the kitchen table, trying to maneuver all these cardboard serial box tabs in order to make an iPad and screen that functions and looks the way that they wanted to look. I don't necessarily think this is gone with like developers of today or people working on Mac software or anything, but there's this feeling of like just because it's possible, it means I should try within the confines of software, like, just because I want to do everything I can to push this thing.

Naomi Pearce: Sure. You brought up Alex Lindsay earlier, have you checked out what he's doing lately? Have you...

Andrew J. Mason: It's been a while I've interviewed him once for a podcast, but he it's, he was doing Pixel Core, I think at the time.

Naomi Pearce: Oh, no. Right, right. So right now he's doing this thing called Office Hours, which is just this incredible... I mean, they get up way too early in the morning and it's like this... It's an incredible sort of international, literally international conversation amongst production professionals. And I think you can access it officehours.global. I usually get up and I catch the second hour. So they're my companion for breakfast eating. I can't quite get up for the first hour, but it's people from literally all over the world having this conversation about production, whether it's video production, streaming production, audio production, all of that. And it's just insane.

Naomi Pearce: I love listening to these guys geek out. He also did the USDZ model for my Clarity client, the 3D modeling. You can go up on Clarity's website, clarity.io and go under the product page for this NODAS and just grab it and play with it. But he's convinced that USDZ 3D is going to be in everything, in keynote. And that's going to be sort of the future of what an image is going to be. And he may have a point there, but he's always pushing the edge of the envelope. I don't know if you remember this, but do you remember the iPod video?

Andrew J. Mason: Oh, absolutely. Yeah.

Naomi Pearce: Right. And so it had this itty bitty little four by three screen, right? This tiny little four by three screen. When Alex had taken a camera from the little space movie...

Andrew J. Mason: Oh yeah. He worked on episode one, I believe.

Naomi Pearce: I guess Star Wars was liquidating some of the old equipment. And so he bought one of the 1080p cameras and he was literally filming the first video podcast in 1080p with this itty bitty tiny little screen, right. So he is always pushing the... I mean, he's always been this way. He's always done the pushing the edge of the envelope. And so this USDZ model that he's done, he did in Apple's Motion app, which is insane. I mean, you...

Andrew J. Mason: What's amazing though, because it's like, you give me this piece of software and I immediately think of what could be possible. I see where the limits are and I want to push them

Naomi Pearce: The vision thing, be gone awry. It's like a $50 program that apple puts out called Motion and Chris, his 3D photorealistic model guy, who's just amazing as well. But so Chris and Alex have been pushing the edges of... Pushing the envelope about what Motion can do. And so I think there's a lot of that that goes on in this industry. There are a lot of people that do that thing that just sort of push things forward and yet kind of pay attention to quality, to details.

Andrew J. Mason: A hundred percent. That goes to what we were talking about earlier about sweating the details. And this, I sometimes wonder if it's particular group of people in a certain time, like during this magical Mac era, when things are just kind of first coming out, but there's examples of that everywhere, still this dual ability to zoom out and see the overall picture, but then zoom in on like this micro level and say, "Hey, this matters."

Naomi Pearce: Well, Rounded Corners make such a difference. Right.

Andrew J. Mason: That's right.

Naomi Pearce: And can you imagine the discussions that went around Rounded Corners for... I mean, I'm sure that was an ongoing...

Andrew J. Mason: Yes.

Naomi Pearce: But I mean yeah dialing in and really paying attention and making sure that... There's the old story about making sure that the back of the fence looks as good as the front of the fence. Right. And paying attention to that because ultimately it does make a better product and that's been sort of a part of the DNA from the get go, right, paying attention to those kind of details. And it's a big deal. It makes a difference in the way you feel about it and interact with it. And the way it relates to you.

Andrew J. Mason: It feels to me, almost this wake up call that says in your rush to build something great, don't forget the details matter.

Naomi Pearce: Details matter for sure. And a lot of details if done right, you don't notice them. It's only even if it's really done right that it just becomes natural. And a lot of the discussion with the Omni products and sort of behind the scenes and with the community is very sweating the details. Is, you got to sweat the details and it's not just are the colors, this year's fabulous fashion purple or whatever. It's not just that, it's how you interact with it. How it feels to work with it. Nowadays, you've got the different form factors. You've got the desktop form factor. You've got the phone form factor, you've got the iPad. And in the case of OmniFocus you got a fool with the web one. I mean, that's a lot of details and it's not just... A lot of times users will ask for one thing and what they really need is something else.

Naomi Pearce: Right? So for example, a tabbed interface is what they'll ask for, right? And this is one that's come up on both fronts. I mean, BB Edit had this discussion as well, and it's come up on both Omni and BB Edit. This has been up on both fronts. So it's a thing, right? The tabbed interface doesn't scale well, but users will ask for tabs. And what they mean is being able to access multiple things, right. BB Edit it's the sidebar and Omni Things it's handled in different ways. Right. I mean, of course being able to tag things, you can sort of make your own organizational structure.

Andrew J. Mason: Oh yeah.

Naomi Pearce: Heard somebody talking about tagging with emojis recently. And I thought, oh, that's actually pretty brilliant.

Andrew J. Mason: Yeah. Don't mark me, but I think that it was maybe Jimmy little, I remember hearing it on the Omni Show him mentioning that. And it's so funny because we think we know what's right. You just ask for, as a feature, whatever feels the most natural.

Naomi Pearce: If it feels natural, sometimes what you ask for and what you need are two different things, right? But much discussion ensues.

Andrew J. Mason: I so appreciate, I mentioned this before this level of co-creation that happens out in the open, like this building culture, and I know different cultures are different, different software companies do things in, in different ways, but it's so cool to get to have this iterative back and forth process happening.

Naomi Pearce: Different cultures are different. And some people will take the feedback in a different format and not want to do everything out in public. And other people are perfectly happy to take the slings and arrows that... I mean, there are certain kind of guardrails and the community takes care of a lot of those guardrails, but sort of the interplay back and forth during the test flights. I mean some of these, the amount of energy some people put into it, which is, I know I appreciate it, but I mean, it's a lot.

Andrew J. Mason: It is. I think the importance level, especially for software, like OmniFocus is like, this is, Hey, people run their lives on this.

Naomi Pearce: Right. And I know that it ends up getting translated into sort of actionable items, to take a look at and think about further. And all of that is greatly appreciated. Even when two different camps are like I hate this blue, I love this blue, whatever, or there's too much space right here or whatever. I mean, and there's sort of a process that they go through, which recently came up in conversation about feature completeness is not the same as design completeness and sort of a process for what gets dialed in and when, and doing all that out in the open is very much part and parcel with the Omni Group's culture.

Andrew J. Mason: It's amazing though, because you know, I think as a developer, not everybody wants to be responsible as they. There's always a they in the culture, there's always a somebody they answer to, and I know not everybody wants to wear that hat. So, I just so appreciate this openness.

Naomi Pearce: Right, right. And you're right. There's a lot of engineers that aren't... I mean, poor Ken ends up being sort of the face and hat of the front man as it were, but there's a lot of engineers behind the crew, parsing seeing a lot of what is being said. And that's the key though. I mean, isn't it? With whether it's whatever open source thing or regular product is, it's not getting the feedback it's all in, who makes the decision on implementing the feedback and how that gets interpolated. Care must be taken in terms of who gets to make the changes. Right?

Andrew J. Mason: 100%. Too many cooks. And when it's a small group of empowered individuals, I think that's when we see great things happen, it's like, this is not governed by everybody, but we take all of the input, take a look at it and do our best to accommodate for the most people. Now, at the beginning of the episode, we were clear about the, not a power user status. What software or apps from Omni, do you use and what roles do they play day to day when you do use them?

Naomi Pearce: My personal approach to it, I'm a power tool fan, not necessarily a power user of a power tool. Right? And to me that's perfectly appropriate. And it's okay. I don't know if anybody has an expectation that the PR person should be the most powerful power user ever invented and rigorous honesty dictates. No, no, no.

Andrew J. Mason: That's right.

Naomi Pearce: Sorry. So Jason Snell has a quote about BB Edit saying, I know that I only use about 3%, I think was the number of what BB Edit can do, but that 3% is crucial 3% to me. And so I think how one approaches it is really up to you. I mean, it doesn't make any difference in terms of the bottom line. So I'll give you another example. I use PDF Pen probably twice a year.

Naomi Pearce: And whenever it comes out, I spend the 30 bucks or whatever it is. And because it's not in the money, the cost of adopting the software is not the dollars to me, just shopping will take me longer than the value of the dollars. Right? And dialing in which one of the things that do the foo is the one I want. Right. And learning it. So, I might use PDF Pen twice a year, but when I need it, I need it right now. And it's crucial. So, I don't have to be a power user of PDF Pen to adopt PDF Pen, same with the various incendiary Omni products. I have different relationship with each one of them. I mean, I'll use them all to a certain degree, but I mean, you had this guy last summer on... Morton, I think was his name.

Andrew J. Mason: Yeah. Morton Rovic from GTD Nordic.

Naomi Pearce: Right. And he's a coach of GTD-ness and he made this comment and he was making a joke and it was funny, but the joke was a fool with a tool is still a fool. Right? And his point's not wrong. Unless you really know the methodology, you're not going to get the most out of it. Right. And unless you know the GTD methodology... And that's fine and I'm not, he's not wrong, but there's other perspectives. And I happen to have a totally different perspective. To me, when I hear something like that, I'm like, well, color me foolish. Stay hungry, stay foolish. I'm on board. I'm okay with being a fool. I try to get that out of the way before lunch, if possible every day. But to me, technology should conform to me, not me to it.

Naomi Pearce: Right? And for me, whether or not I use a tool a little bit or a lot makes no difference to companies bottom line, you're going to buy it whether you use it a little bit or a lot. Right? And I respect those that can go deep and do the GTD thing, as an example. My sort of relationship with GTD-ness has evolved over time. I originally sort of thought about it as well. That's for those folks, with the ADHD set, that's for the people that need to remember everything. And then I had a light bulb moment when I was remodeling the condo and had all of my client work at the same time and trying to plan a wedding because isn't that what everybody does. Right? You're going to plan a wedding and why not remodel at the same time. Okay.

Naomi Pearce: All the way on. And when that happened, it was like, oh, I get it to manage the overwhelm. Right. And I would pick it up and use it much more deeply in those times. And then when I'm sort of back to normal, I might put it down for a while and, and that's okay. It doesn't make any difference to anybody else. It's about what works for me. And when it were for me and sometimes being a heavier user and sometimes being a lighter user, it's not like there's the GTD police waiting at my door going, did you do your GTD today?

Andrew J. Mason: That's right. Well, I don't know who needs to hear this, but I feel like this might be freeing for somebody, there's no wrong way to do this. I mean, just the fact that you're even trying is an amazing win. I don't believe that Ken Case or anybody from the Omni Group's going to be camped out knocking on your door,, pointing finger at you saying, Hey, you're doing OmniFocus wrong.

Andrew J. Mason: That's actually a really good transition into the timing of our show. Meaning when the show is being released, I feel like it's significant. This is usually the time of year when folks cycle through the end of their year, into their new year routines, if they have any and maybe they start thinking about how they'd like to iterate or do better. I don't understand why... I do this too, but there's so much pressure to get this thing right. And it's like, we had to up stressing ourselves out even more. And I'm just curious what your opinion is on this. Do you have any rituals, routines, anything that just kind of falls into this category of resolutions and maybe some thoughts on why do people stress, their selves out so much that they just, I mean, we lose our minds?

Naomi Pearce: Oh, why I do people lose their minds? That's a good... Well, I don't know, but the evolution has, for me evolved even more than just managing over intense set of stuff to do. To me, it's got, now it took years for this evolution to happen. Now it's more about figuring out, determining what I'm going to say no to.

Andrew J. Mason: That's interesting. Actually, I've never heard this case before. So building a list so that you know what you're not going to do.

Naomi Pearce: Right. Right. And that's a whole different step in my relationship with it. So I don't need to put in, remember to get the milk. I can walk around the grocery store and I can visualize, that's not the juggling. I'm a good juggler. I know what I have and don't have in my pantry at any given time, when I'm going up and down the store shelves. Other people use it differently. They need to remember to get the milk. Right. For me, it's the bigger things that I want to take a look at and accomplish. And it's very new year's like idea, I suppose, right. I mean, getting organized and how you want to approach it. But I think it was Steven Covy that comes up with the urgent and important trying to stay in that section and not just doing things that are urgent, but also keeping a focus of what's important.

Naomi Pearce: There was also the interrupt driven sort of step in the evolution where it was about being able to go, okay, where was I? And look down at OmniFocus and see that. But each of the Omni products, I use to a different extent in a different way. I am not a project man for a company that lives in Omni Plan. But having said that, I'm working on some construction action, I've got a different remodel going on and it's not in a location that I can reach right away. And the amount of money that is saved by thinking it through and pre-planning is many multiples of what it costs. I mean, the product, I think what is it, 400 bucks? To get to $400 worth of savings in terms of my time, very quick. I mean, immediately you have More productivity. So I've got that in OmniPlan I've got Omnigraffle working on a... I have to communicate about an outdoor project that involves communicating to other people. And I am so not an artist, except in the kitchen.

Naomi Pearce: My drawing is horrible, but that's to me, what Omnigraffle is for yes. Helping people graph out what they can't draw, all the stencils and the different kind of foliage and putting that on there. And this is what I'm thinking it looks like, and it has to be to scale because if the door doesn't shut you're in trouble. Right, right. And then you hand... Maybe then once you get it all developed, you hand it off to somebody that has to make sure that the things are up to code or whatever kind of drawings.

Naomi Pearce: And then on the Omni Outliner front, I use it a little bit differently than you mentioned William Gallagher or yeah. Right. And he will collect ideas into Omni Outliner when he thinks of them. My approach to it is a little bit different. I will start with a blank page. I've got more ideas flying around in my head and that's okay. But then I start with a blank page and I'll start to document them. And the minute I need to move them around is when I jump over to Omni Outliner. So, I don't start there because styles are sort of distracting, but I'll go there the minute I need to start moving things around.

Andrew J. Mason: Let's zoom into the second part of that. So this is just one person's opinion, but why do you think we put so much pressure on ourselves to improve each year? Where do you think that that drive comes from? Speak to that for just a second.

Naomi Pearce: Well, sure. The motivations, I think are very individual. Why we collectively do that is because we have the opportunity to start over. Right. But I do want to back up just a quick sec to the power tool versus power user thing. When I'm going to invest in a tool there's certain check boxes I need to have. I mean, you have to be this tall to play. You have to have robust automation because I'm occasionally going to do that. Right. Accessibility is another checkbox for me. And it says a lot about what else is going on with the application, right? So that said, I want tools in my life that I'm not going to bump against that outer edge of what I'm going to do with them. Right. And a lot of times the tools... I'll give you another example from the real world, not even application specific.

Naomi Pearce: There was a moment when I had plowed through two Hoover wind tunnels in the span of about what a year and a half, maybe nine months of pop one after the other. And I went out shopping for vacuum cleaner and was looking at the Sebo, which is just amazing, but, oh my God, I can't believe you want $700 at the time for a vacuum cleaner. This is just nuts. And then it was of course, pointed out to me that I had already spent $700 by buying two wind tunnels at a time. Right. So I bought this Sebo, which is amazing. You should see the turn radius on this thing. It's just a phenomenal vacuum cleaner. And I've used it for like 10 years since. So some of this all goes into the investment of what kind of power tool. I don't need a steel leaf blower, but boy, it makes such a difference to get a good tool and have it last a while instead of having fool with it again, right.

Naomi Pearce: Similar to my investment in learning a tool or learning a methodology. So back to your question of approaching new year's eve and my approach, when it comes to power tools, it's a combination of being a power tool user in a maybe, or maybe not power user way. If there's a distinction between a power tool user and power user.

Andrew J. Mason: Yeah, no there is.

Naomi Pearce: But to me, let yourself off the hook for being a power user. It's okay to be a fool. It's okay to take small steps and learn it in a light way. And when I approach new's resolutions, if I want them to stick, it seems to be the best way is in baby steps. Don't try to tackle the workout thing all at once. You're going to get discouraged and go away. Just add one walk a day. Or if you want to increase fiber to your diet, just, okay, let's not do the whole thing all day from the get go. Let's just start with adding an extra serving of a scoop of apple sauce or what have you. And then you build on your successes from there. It's starting small and building is sort of my approach. Your mileage may vary if diving into the deep end works for you, have at it.

Andrew J. Mason: And it's so funny you say that because I do that, you'll download the course on black Friday or you'll get that, that quick hit of information that inspires you. And before you know, it's four hours later and you've looked up and you're like, man, I just spent four hours on Max Sparky's OmniFocus course or [inaudible 00:31:59] Creating Flow Book. And what's the one Tim Stringer did? Learn OmniFocus. And again, that pressure just builds where you're like, I'm going to make this right this time. This is going to be awesome.

Naomi Pearce: Right. It's the E to elephant model, right? I mean, but all of those resources are exceptional. And nobody says you have to have them all done in January. Taking it a bit at a time I is helpful for building on success. I mean the Sparky's field guides are exceptional.

Andrew J. Mason: Yes. And I feel like the message here is don't put so much pressure on yourself. It's like the years have been so hard on everybody already just...

Naomi Pearce: Or let yourself off the hook, really. Have it as the goal. And it's good time to review what you want to get done and how I use a tool and how you use a tool, it is a pretty big OmniFocus time of year though, right? I mean, there's a lot of people that want to get organized and that's great. And go ahead, but if you start small and add to your skillset, the learn omnifocus.com, Tim Stringer's videos and tutorials and whatnot are also awesome. And there's so many resources just learning Omni Automation alone. Talk about Sal Seghoian. I mean, there's so much to digest over there, but come on, let yourself off the hook and take it small. And maybe you do that after you've dove in, you need to back up a second and just take a little bit at a time. And however you want to use the tool that actually helps you be more productive. That's okay.

Andrew J. Mason: It's okay. And be kind to yourself.

Naomi Pearce: Be kind to yourself enough with the stress already, right? What's going to take stress away?

Andrew J. Mason: Naomi, thank you for this time talking. Grateful for it. Grateful for your time. I know you are a busy person, but also if you do want the opportunity for people to connect with you, however that looks, whatever that looks like, happy for you to share some methods.

Naomi Pearce: Well, sure. I mean, you can... My website looks like it was built in the nineties because it was, that's okay. It does what it needs to do, but there's a email address, if you read the text there and you can email me directly, or I do occasionally check in. I don't say as much on Twitter, but I will occasionally check in and answer things there and LinkedIn as well, if you want, Naomi is spelled N A O M I Pearce is P E A R C E. So my website is pearce.com.

Andrew J. Mason: Thank you so much for being here. Hey and thank all of you for listening today too. As always, you can drop us a line at the Omni show on Twitter. We'd love to hear from you there. You can also find out everything that's happening with the Omni Group at omnigroup.com\blog.